Ula's Creative Drasha

On Tuesday evening, we learned the middle of ב:  -  dealing with the drasha of Ula.  He asks,

"Where do we see a hint of Edim zomimin from the Torah?"

The Gemara had thought that he meant where do we see a hint for the main halacha/ punishment for classic e.z. from the Torah? Understanding the question this way, the Gemara retorts that this is not an issue - no need for a רמז - their punishment is explicit in the Torah!

The Gemara explains that Ula's question is: where do we see a hint in the Torah that in the cases of our mishna, we give the edim makkot instead of כאשר זמם?

The Gemara proceeds to cite a pasuk in Devarim 25:

א כִּי־יִֽהְיֶ֥ה רִיב֙ בֵּ֣ין אֲנָשִׁ֔ים וְנִגְּשׁ֥וּ אֶל־הַמִּשְׁפָּ֖ט וּשְׁפָט֑וּם וְהִצְדִּ֨יקוּ֙ אֶת־הַצַּדִּ֔יק וְהִרְשִׁ֖יעוּ אֶת־הָֽרָשָֽׁע: ב וְהָיָ֛ה אִם־בִּ֥ן הַכּ֖וֹת הָֽרָשָׁ֑ע וְהִפִּיל֤וֹ הַשֹּׁפֵט֙ וְהִכָּ֣הוּ לְפָנָ֔יו כְּדֵ֥י רִשְׁעָת֖וֹ בְּמִסְפָּֽר: ג אַרְבָּעִ֥ים יַכֶּ֖נּוּ לֹ֣א יֹסִ֑יף פֶּן־יֹסִ֨יף לְהַכֹּת֤וֹ עַל־אֵ֨לֶּה֙ מַכָּ֣ה רַבָּ֔ה וְנִקְלָ֥ה אָחִ֖יךָ לְעֵינֶֽיךָ

We noted in our session that the plain pshat of the pasuk is speaking about two people who are quarreling, go to court, one gets convicted while the other exonerated.  The one who is found guilty, if lashes are due to him, is lashed.  However, the pasuk is problematic, because a quarrel between two parties indicates a civil matter is at issue, while the words, to convict, to exonerate, etc, connote some sort of criminal or capital matter!

We noted that Ula's reinterpretation of the pasuk asserts that instead of the judges being מרשיע and מצדיק, it's the עדים מזימים - the second set of edim that exonerate the accused, Reuven, and make liable the original edim, who've they declared zomimin.  This is fundamentally different from the way the pasuk read earlier.  Now that the pasuk is read as referring to edim zomimin, the lashes in the verse that edim zomimin sometimes get lashes. Presumably, it's for the kinds of cases of our mishna.

Ula arrives at his conclusion via a rhetorical question that we did not fully complete in shiur and will complete on Wed night, bli neder!